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You can’t understand someone else’s perspective if THEY don’t even believe in what they’re saying. Someone can’t be pro life for abortions and pro death penalty. Someone can’t be pro life for abortions and not support social welfare programs. If you have beliefs, you need to apply them across all issues, or you’re just cherry picking whatever you feel like is convenient for you at that time. I can’t take anyone serious if their belief system only applies on 2 out of the Tyrese Haliburton Indiana Pacers Big face signature Shirt so you should to go to store and get this 7 days of the week. Thats some bs lol Again, you say “pro life” and attach a lot of meaning to that instead of stopping this and just accepting that the ‘pro life’ movement really is just opposed to what they believe to be infanticide.
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They are not opposed to ending a life as a hard principle. We could play this game all day. I’m opposed to the Tyrese Haliburton Indiana Pacers Big face signature Shirt so you should to go to store and get this death penalty. I’m not opposed to killing someone as a last resort in self defense. Well then the people who think abortion is infanticide, need to start calling it that because their whole argument under pro life doesn’t make any sense. They look like half assed activists who flip flop on issues. The ‘pro life’ movement is full of people I don’t hold to the highest regard, but I can assure you wailing on how they should say something different is not going to accomplish anything. They are not going to change a brand that has worked for their goal. It’s not wailing on how they say something. My problem is how they “flip flop” on what lives they choose to prioritize. You can’t say you are PRO LIFE but you encourage the death penalty. You can’t say you’re pro life when you call asylum seekers at the border “IlLeGaL aLiEnS”. Shit is so stupid. It’s either they care about ALL lives or they never really gave a shit about them to begin with… They need to pick a side and stick with it.
Bro pro life is about abortion not people who are born are you kidding? In fact yes this is clearly a bad faith argument. You just make pro choice look weak if you rely on bad faith to make your point. Focus on the Tyrese Haliburton Indiana Pacers Big face signature Shirt so you should to go to store and get this crux of it which is: How many days after conception does a zygote officially become a human with the right not to be killed. Well, they’re concerning killing the innocent in one case, and the guilty in the other, so they’re not really the same. You think only actually guilty people have been executed? Let me tell you about this thing we have called the criminal justice system… Your logic has holes in it. If it was a circuit it would not conduct electricity. If it was a bucket it would not hold water. If it was an economic system it would be hyperinflationary.
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Think harder about this and try to find your mistake. I am pro choice btw but will always point out flawed logic to try and save us all some time. As a pro-abortion person, to be fair, death penalty is a penalty for comitted crimes. That, at least, is their logic; not that I endorse it. I do personally see the Tyrese Haliburton Indiana Pacers Big face signature Shirt so you should to go to store and get this philosophical contradiction, but it’s more complicated than “death penalty = abortion because there is death”. I do agree on the welfare programs part, which ultimately comes full-circle to the same conflict than the death penalty issue. That’s for sure a straw man argument. Comparing unborn babies to people that receive the death penalty for horrendous actions is just straight up mental gymnastics.
Yeah it’s really difficult to understand why people who are against killing babies would be in favor of exacting the Tyrese Haliburton Indiana Pacers Big face signature Shirt so you should to go to store and get this death penalty on people who rape and murder 3 year olds /s. I’m pro-choice because I don’t see abortion as murder, because I see a cluster of cells that’s unviable out of the womb as potential human life, not an actual human life. If I did genuinely see it as murder I wouldn’t be ok with it just because I also support the death penalty for extreme cases. I mean people usually support the death penalty as a means to getting rid of society’s most heinous criminals. While being pro-life is about protecting an innocent fetus. I don’t see a contradiction. Not to mention how many pro forced birth people only care about the fetus until it’s born. Then they say the baby is not their responsibility and refuse to adopt I feel like my IQ drops after each reply that I read. You cant possibly think that an abortion is the same thing as death penalty. Im against death penalty and Im only against abortion because of how politicized the entire thing is, but that has to be one of the most ridiculous takes Ive ever read
Well, to be precise, some babies kill their mother while being in the Tyrese Haliburton Indiana Pacers Big face signature Shirt so you should to go to store and get this womb (mothers getting undiagnosed diabetes, blood poisoning and whatever a pregnant woman could die from) and therefore die themselves.. that might count as homicide.. Pre-eclampsia is a huge killer of pregnant women. The only way to stop a severe onset is to remove the baby from the woman’s body. Women die every 2 minutes from pregnancy and childbirth… We have hundreds of thousands of women dying every year from pregnancy and childbirth, millions left disabled. But their lives aren’t relevant apparently. Until live organ, tissue and blood donation is mandatory and organ donation is opt out for medical reasons in the event of a life ending accident, I don’t see why women should be the only class of people required to donate an organ to give someone else a chance at life. (and I don’t believe an early stage embryo is a life)
And before you say they chose sex, well, people who ride motorcycles chose that too and they aren’t required to be organ donors Because those are criminals found guilty in a court of law, as opposed to innocent babies who haven’t done anything wrong. It becomes much more difficult to understand pro-lifer’s stance when they usually always support the Tyrese Haliburton Indiana Pacers Big face signature Shirt so you should to go to store and get this death penalty. That’s why some call themselves “abortion abolitionists”, if they still support capital punishment. These are two separate scenarios, regardless of the branding. Those are two separate issues. In their view, preventing murder does not mean the government should provide for everyone’s needs. The fact you don’t realize that thinking that killing a murderer is ok is not the same as thinking that killing a baby is ok is beyond me. And I’m neither pro-death penalty nor anti-abortion. I just like to make my arguments based on a reasoning that actually makes some sort of sense. The answer is that they see these unborn as innocent. Criminals not so much. Opposing welfare is just a symptom of believing in supply side Jesus. I don’t get it either.
Also they usually don’t support aids for those kids if the Tyrese Haliburton Indiana Pacers Big face signature Shirt so you should to go to store and get this kids were born into a bad situation like school meals or liveable money for the mom. It becomes much more difficult to understand pro-lifer’s stance when they usually always support the death penalty. Makes zero sense how they are in the deep end to ban abortions calling it murder, but are completely okay with advocating for the death penalty. Also, the same people who oppose abortions, also oppose welfare programs… So they want to force kids into the world, but provide no safety nets for these children. I’m fine with the other side thinking it’s infantcide. They can think that until the day they die if they want. The problem is why must we adhere to their beliefs over an individual rights to their own body?
Even this “individual rights” thing is a current social idea (that has social limitations, like all rights). You think anybody cares about your “rights” in the Tyrese Haliburton Indiana Pacers Big face signature Shirt so you should to go to store and get this wild ? You have “rights” because society thinks you should. And society also establishes limitations and responsibilities. The problem is that they consider the child to be a person. It’s like a northerner telling a Southerner before the civil war that they’re enslaving people, but the Southerner tells them “the skull is shaped wrong, so they’re not people. That’s science.” And we can’t forget the perennial favorite, “If you don’t like slavery, then don’t enslave anyone.” I’m sure that changed minds /s. I’m fine with the other side thinking it’s infantcide. They can think that until the day they die if they want. The problem is why must we adhere to their beliefs over an individual rights to their own body? Trump was out there claiming that Dems would abort babies after they were born, and the religious nutballs ate it up. The guy tells the craziest lies, and the Evangelicals totally believe him because it’s what they want to believe. I wish I was making this up.1 It’s not about infanticide at all. That’s what they say but that’s not why it’s such a contentious issue in the US. If it were really about the children then these people would show support for children elsewhere and yet the overlap of people wanting to ban abortion and scrap welfare systems for kids is literally a circle. The reality is that the Republicans have discovered abortion to be an easy subject to rally gullible voters to. Conservative media brainwashes these people to oppose abortion (despite it having zero alignment with their other political ideologies) and the party leverages that for votes.
It really has zero to do with actually saving babies from being murdered, besides an obvious few that actually believe that. You’re way overthinking this. Being anti-abortion doesn’t necessitate you must also be in favor of all sorts of other social programs for children. It’s no different than being anti-murder while not supporting, say, social security. No one would argue “pff you don’t *really* care about people not dying, you’ve just been fooled by politics to think murder is bad!”. If you believe a fetus is a person, abortion is active murder. People tend to think a lot more poorly of actively killing someone than simply not helping them. Except they weren’t up in arms in 1973. They suddenly became pro-life when a Republican strategist thought abortion would make a great wedge issue after the Tyrese Haliburton Indiana Pacers Big face signature Shirt so you should to go to store and get this federal government wanted to remove the tax-exempt status of segregation academies. I am sure some people today have genuine beliefs surrounding unborn babies, but very few seem to be consistent about their thoughts on the value of “life.” If a building was on fire and a forced birther could only save either an infant a few days old or a tray of 50 unborn fertalised foetuses, if they actuly believed they were equivalent they wouldn’t hesitate to save the tray. But we aaaaallllll know what they speak is a load of crap, they know it too, and they would 100% choose the baby. I’ve found that most pro life people don’t really see it as murder and have other motivations for being pro life.
Just yesterday I talked to a pro life guy who was actually just mad that men don’t get a say in whether a woman aborts or not, and thought that it would be “equality” if the Tyrese Haliburton Indiana Pacers Big face signature Shirt so you should to go to store and get this woman didn’t get a say either. Exactly. Everyone who accepts the “infanticide” argument is blinded by trust. I’ll go a step further and say there is not a single pro-life person who genuinely considers abortion to be infanticide. It is always a cover for something else, or they’ve literally never thought about the issue and are just repeating what they’ve been told to say. Even then, it seems the US has a way more polarized debate than most other countries? Viewing it, like you say, as basically a life or death issue. Let me put it this way, my country legalized abortion in 2010, which is well within living memory (though interestingly, the pre-2010 law had so many loopholes in it that abortions actually went down after being legalized!).
Do we have people against abortion? Yeah sure. But they tend to be either hardline religious people (of which there are very few) or certain parts of our far right parties (which they don’t really push, as they have better/more popular stuff to do like bashing immigrants) So there is certainly no huge amount of people rushing to make abortion illegal, even if like 25%-ish of the Tyrese Haliburton Indiana Pacers Big face signature Shirt so you should to go to store and get this country opposes it. It used to be that preventing implantation of a fertilized egg (e.g. Plan B) was generally not a moral issue, and I think it’s become one for a larger segment of that movement. If they think abortion is literally baby murder then why do they just stand around with signs? You’d think they would be chaining themselves to the doors of abortion clinics or throwing themselves in front of the doctors car or something.
If that were the Tyrese Haliburton Indiana Pacers Big face signature Shirt so you should to go to store and get this case, then those same people wouldn’t be making exceptions for rape and incest, which is extremely common. Of course there’s also the case for danger to the mother’s life, which is pretty much universally accepted. I think what many other countries have settled upon is that prior to an agreed upon number of weeks, the government should keep their nose out of personal and family decisions. We’re probably going to get there eventually, but OP is right that others have arrived at this much faster, for myriad reasons we in the US haven’t. That’s what pro government mandated birth says the believe, but they don’t for the most part, and I can prove it. Let’s say I told you that in at 10:00 AM I am going to shoot a 1 year old baby in the head and I gave you the address of where the murder is going to happen. Let’s say that it’s within half an hour drive of your home.
Are you going to vote to stop me from executing a baby? Are you going to stand outside the Tyrese Haliburton Indiana Pacers Big face signature Shirt so you should to go to store and get this execution site and be angry that I’m executing a baby maybe call me some names? Would you be doing any of the things the pro forced birth crowd are doing or would you stop me from shooting that baby by any means necessary? All so, one side didn’t care about abortion until the early 70’s. So there’s something else at play as well. They didn’t just wake up one day 50 years ago and decide abortion is murdering babies. America has a large far right Religious population that have pushed their baby-killing propaganda for years. The churches work hard to get their people in to politics and thus push for their religious agendas.
Yeah, it’s hard for religious zealots to understand that the Tyrese Haliburton Indiana Pacers Big face signature Shirt so you should to go to store and get this human woman should have more rights than a parasitic clump of cells growing inside her It’s not a matter of opinion. It doesn’t matter what you think. In fact, I think your answer is the REAL answer to the problem. This would make sense if they also supported those children after they are born. Most of those people that are anti-abortion also do not believe in social services. I will also add that there is a small percentage of people who just hate women and want to control/punish them. So, taking away their rights and forcing them to carry unwanted pregnancies/risk their lives in childbirth is all about control This is emphasized by the blocking of sex education and birth control to young people – if you are really against abortion then do everything in your power to prevent pregnancy Abortion, LGBT, race relations, xenophobia, all culture war issues the American right has decided to argue about, most Americans are more progressive but a small vocal and politically connected minority prefer to take the other side. Abortion, LGBT, race relations, xenophobia, all culture war issues the American right has decided to argue about most Americans are more progressive but a small vocal and politically connected minority prefer to take the other side.
Right. “Most Americans”. It’s such a huge minority that all want what YOU want, but that tiny minority of people who disagree just keeps making victims of you all. i mean, do you remember when this same thing happened like 60 years ago? most of the Tyrese Haliburton Indiana Pacers Big face signature Shirt so you should to go to store and get this country agreed abortion was fine, and the country was founded on quickening laws. then the evangelicals needed a new boogeyman to get people angry to vote on. This is the answer. The protestant right has lots of money and funding anti-abortion and anti-queer campaigns riles people up and gets them votes. There is a great “You’re wrong about” podcast episode about this Quite sad 🫤 why is literally everything politicized. I don’t think the government should be in on the decision what you do with your body on and individual level. I know that is a box of worms statement, so we’ll just leave it for now since it’s almost 11pm here for me. Graham Hancock said it best though regarding consciousness and the prohibition of certain substances that the government has turned into a 4-letter word – drug.
There are millions of people who share your opinion; however, in a lot of cases they live somewhere where their opinion wasn’t the Tyrese Haliburton Indiana Pacers Big face signature Shirt so you should to go to store and get this side that was legislated, yet they either don’t or can’t move to somewhere that does. Read the top comment. No they don’t wanna regulate people’s bodies with this. They believe they are saving living sperate beings. Not another part of you. That is the whole premise of the pro life argument. But I feel you choose to ignore that to make them out to be more evil Also white supremacy. The right see abortion as a quick way to a country that is no longer majority white. I remember watching a clip of someone explaining it once in the context that some right wing political strategists were openly expressing the idea themselves. It was pretty eye opening. The reason I agree with this take: the political convenience means people are thinking about abortion WAY, WAY, WAY, WAY more than they otherwise would.
98% of people would never consider their stance on abortion until it hit their inner circle. But because it’s politically profitable, they are constantly asked to take a side. I am from the Tyrese Haliburton Indiana Pacers Big face signature Shirt so you should to go to store and get this US. Can anyone provide a run down on what abortion looks like in a typical European country? Are there restrictions on when it may be done? Is it easy? Hard? Really depends on the country. In England it’s up to 24 weeks that you can have an abortion. In Portugal it’s 10 weeks. Lithuania and Ireland are 12 weeks. Spain is 14 weeks. Etc. One thing about the abortion debate in the US that’s frustrated me is the fact that it gets boiled down to a binary choice of either for or against. There are conservative states who have recently banned it entirely and there are liberal states that have made it legal during any part of a pregnancy. Both answers are wrong. It should only be legal up to a certain point in a pregnancy unless certain complications develop. How the European countries do it seems much better thought out than the US.
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- Length from the highest point of the collar to the bottom hem.
- Chest straight across, armpit to armpit, with the shirt laid flat.
- Sleeve from the center back of the collar to the cuff.
| Size | Length | Chest |
|---|---|---|
| S | 2871 | 1846 |
| M | 2974 | 2051 |
| L | 3076 | 2256 |
| XL | 3179 | 2461 |
| 2XL | 3281 | 2666 |
| 3XL | 3384 | 2871 |
| 4XL | 3486 | 3076 |
| 5XL | 3589 | 3281 |
| Size | Length | Chest |
|---|---|---|
| S | 2564 | 1641 |
| M | 2666 | 1743 |
| L | 26.567 | 1846 |
| XL | 2769 | 19.750 |
| 2XL | 27.971 | 21.655 |
| 3XL | 28.572 | 22.758 |
| Size | Length | Chest |
|---|---|---|
| S | 2871 | 1846 |
| M | 2974 | 2051 |
| L | 3076 | 2256 |
| XL | 3179 | 2461 |
| 2XL | 3281 | 2666 |
| 3XL | 3384 | 2871 |
| Size | Length | Chest | Sleeve |
|---|---|---|---|
| S | 2666 | 2051 | 33.585 |
| M | 2769 | 2256 | 34.588 |
| L | 2871 | 2461 | 35.590 |
| XL | 2974 | 2666 | 36.593 |
| 2XL | 3076 | 2871 | 37.595 |
| 3XL | 3179 | 3076 | 38.598 |
| 4XL | 3281 | 3281 | 38.598 |
| 5XL | 3486 | 3384 | 38.598 |
| Size | Length | Chest | Sleeve |
|---|---|---|---|
| S | 2769 | 2051 | 34.588 |
| M | 2871 | 2256 | 35.590 |
| L | 2974 | 2461 | 36.593 |
| XL | 3076 | 2666 | 37.595 |
| 2XL | 3179 | 2871 | 38.598 |
| 3XL | 3281 | 3076 | 3999 |
| 4XL | 3384 | 3281 | 39.5100 |
| 5XL | 3486 | 3486 | 40102 |
| Size | Length | Chest | Sleeve |
|---|---|---|---|
| S | 2871 | 1846 | 33.585 |
| M | 2974 | 2051 | 3589 |
| L | 3076 | 2358 | 36.593 |
| XL | 3179 | 2461 | 3897 |
| 2XL | 3281 | 2666 | 39.5100 |
| 3XL | 3384 | 2871 | 39.5100 |
| Size | Length | Chest |
|---|---|---|
| S | 2769 | 1846 |
| M | 2871 | 2051 |
| L | 2974 | 2256 |
| XL | 3076 | 2461 |
| 2XL | 3179 | 2666 |
| Size | Youth size | Length | Chest |
|---|---|---|---|
| S | 6-8 | 20.552 | 1641 |
| M | 10-12 | 2256 | 1743 |
| L | 14-16 | 23.560 | 1846 |
| XL | 18-20 | 2564 | 1948 |
| Size | Youth size | Length | Chest |
|---|---|---|---|
| S | 6-8 | 2153 | 1743 |
| M | 10-12 | 22.557 | 1846 |
| L | 14-16 | 2461 | 1948 |
| XL | 18-20 | 25.565 | 2051 |
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