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Just to clarify, we’re talking about severe sped classes. I’ve personally never heard of a severe sped class of 25 students and I work in an impacted site where most severe sped students are funneled to us. The largest we have is 13, and that was the Is It Solipsistic In Here Or Is It Just Me René Descartes T Shirt Shirt but I will buy this shirt and I will love this largest class our regional admins had ever seen. It sounds like you’re talking about GE or an inappropriate placement, which if you read my post I address and acknowledge that they shouldn’t be there. However that’s not the programs I’m referencing with this post. All of that is correct. Problem is that inappropriate placements are far too common, especially in buildings or districts where performative inclusion is the norm. That’s where the frustration comes from.
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Thank you for clarifying. . . I read it closer and realized my error. Sorry for the Is It Solipsistic In Here Or Is It Just Me René Descartes T Shirt Shirt but I will buy this shirt and I will love this language. . . I’ve had a student bite another student this year and admin was all shrug. The emotion of that memory got the better of my reason. All good, we’re stressed and overworked in GE and SPED alike, you shouldn’t have a classroom of students biting each other! That student deserves an education, but not in your classroom. lol well they’re getting more upvotes than anyone else on this thread so I imagine most lurkers aren’t either, but it’s okay. Some people are offering good nuanced discussion on the topic and that’s what I posted for so I’m happy with the overall response so far. Nobody is on this sub that works at a school specialized for dangerous students complaining about LRE. This is general ed teachers trying to deal with 30+ kids and having dangerous students.
The reason I made this post was a post made after a series of other posts I read specifically talking about a para in a sped class dealing with aggression. There are aggressive behaviors dealt with in public schools in sped programs, I’m not referencing behavior programs which we do have available to students outside of our scope. I’d be curious to see this post where teachers are coming out of the Is It Solipsistic In Here Or Is It Just Me René Descartes T Shirt Shirt but I will buy this shirt and I will love this woodwork to say a SPED kid in a specialized SPED class for dangerous kids should be kicked out the school. I spend a lot of time here and have seen nothing like that. Quite the opposite, I made a post referencing a couple comments I’ve seen, acknowledging that my experience is not the case for most users on here who are in GE classrooms. I don’t plan on drawing attention to anyone’s comments because I don’t believe they were made with ill intent, just a lack of understanding. Like I said, I’m glad you haven’t seen anything like what I’m describing and I do hope it was unusual. Have a great weekend. I don’t plan on drawing attention to anyone’s comments because I don’t believe they were made with ill intent, just a lack of understanding.
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If you’re gonna come here and talk shit, be prepared to provide evidence. If this was widespread, simple copy/paste would take you 30 seconds. Anything and everything is done to ensure that maximum amount of kids are mainstreamed and put into Gen Ed. It is dangerous to other students and takes quality educational time away from them. Ofc your perspective is correct given the Is It Solipsistic In Here Or Is It Just Me René Descartes T Shirt Shirt but I will buy this shirt and I will love this environment you are in but that is not the average teacher experience. The posts you’ve “read recently”, I’m sure, are not about specialized programs, schools, or institutions. They are probably about regular schools meant for the average American child. This. I teach sped resource but because of lack of funding and staffing I ended up with a class this year that is 1/2 resource and 1/2 BD. Those resource kids who are already struggling academically and get DI instruction in the same room with the BD students do not deserve to spend their sped minutes in a room full of wild behaviors. I would argue that they are not getting their sped minutes met because so much of my time is spent dealing with behaviors. Several periods I don’t even have another adult in there with me because we can’t find one to hire and subs refuse to do it since our district pays minimum wage for paraprofessionals. I’m about to lose my ever-loving mind in there. I have two boys of my own with moderate autism, so behaviors are not new to me at all, but this is ridiculous. Our ratio is 1:7, so “it’s legal”.
You’re right that my environment isn’t the Is It Solipsistic In Here Or Is It Just Me René Descartes T Shirt Shirt but I will buy this shirt and I will love this typical environment, and I address that in my post, admitting that most of the users on this sub are likely in a GE class not equipped to deal with aggressive behaviors. This is more so an attempt at me responding to the idea that these students have no place in school, as opposed to no place in a GE classroom, the latter of which I agree with. Inappropriate placements are far too common and the hoops educators have to jump through to have a full class of appropriately placed students isn’t fair. Except that no one is saying these children do not have a right to education, or a place in school. It is so difficult to get a child placed into an alternate School when neither the district nor the parents support the idea. Not to mention the fact that there are no places available.
And you know – that’s great. I think it’s awesome that some people receive a “calling” for these types of students and adults. But that’s not education, really. That’s not teaching. That’s caring for children and students who have severe medical and mental issues. Does learning happen in those environments? Absolutely but it’s very different. In a lot of cases, that’s an entirely different field, to be honest. And I would argue that conversation has no place whatsoever in the Is It Solipsistic In Here Or Is It Just Me René Descartes T Shirt Shirt but I will buy this shirt and I will love this public education system. Should be an entirely different “department” so to speak. We have a huge issue with dealing with every social ill via the average classroom. It’s got to stop. Teachers are teachers. It’s that simple. I hear what you’re saying. I do think it’s education still, it’s just the education goals for those students may be less academic focused and more behavior focused. We have had multiple students whose goals started as behavior focused and turned into more academic focused as we got the behaviors under control. I do agree that type of classroom environment can look much different than a GE or even mild sped classroom. That being said, I do believe teaching appropriate behavior management and communication skills is an appropriate job for teachers who are willing to be a part of that type of learning environment.
That’s really great and I 100% believe that there could be a “transition” period for students to successfully integrate into the Is It Solipsistic In Here Or Is It Just Me René Descartes T Shirt Shirt but I will buy this shirt and I will love this regular classroom. I agree that it’s a part of education but I disagree that it should be lumped in with general education and dealt with at the regular school house. But I do think we are on the same page overall because the average teacher couldn’t and shouldn’t have to do those things. Should be an entirely new and different department and job. Behavior technician teacher, etc. It seems like people in those environments should have completely different training and expertise than a classroom teacher. I became a teacher to teach. Not to counsel and coach students in self-management. And as cruel as that sounds – it’s perfectly ok to feel that way. I don’t want to raise and counsel kids. I already have my own and I don’t believe it is the public school’s job or responsibility to do so. You describe a very niche thing and in any other field, it would be recognized as the speciality that it is. But for some reason, in American education, we get a big grey brush where everyone has to do everything all at once and constantly. And it’s more and more every year.
I will be honest that I struggle to wrap my head around such the Is It Solipsistic In Here Or Is It Just Me René Descartes T Shirt Shirt but I will buy this shirt and I will love this reality of such places. I think for many teachers these placements are pure myth. I’ve only worked at a few school sites in my one area so my understanding of the broader system is very limited, but I will say that at my current site on a public school, we have a very competently staffed sped program that accommodates severe students for all grade levels and I am confident in my classroom’s ability to manage aggressive behaviors, which we have done on a daily basis at times. I acknowledge this does not seem to be the norm and it’s very saddening that districts can’t find a way to find more robust programs so that these students can be placed in an environment where everyone is safer and learning is happening because when the placement isn’t right, learning stops to deal with behavior.
Nobody is saying kids don’t have a right to school. You made that up. That’s where your whole post falls apart. I am someone who values working with and near students with severe needs and don’t mind taking the Is It Solipsistic In Here Or Is It Just Me René Descartes T Shirt Shirt but I will buy this shirt and I will love this occasional bruise or broken skin involved. However, I can also see a tendency in my district to gaslight teachers who are beyond their depth, fail to take action to protect other students from kids who look at everyday items as weapons, ignore the pleas of parents whose children are terrified to come to school, and deny workman’s comp on technicalities because “no police report was filed so how can you say you were assaulted”? Our union’s advice has been in addition to filing reports through the school, to also file our own police reports so the district can’t say “reports? What reports? Nobody reported injuries!”
Kids with aggression issues that make them liable to attack another student or teacher do not belong in the Is It Solipsistic In Here Or Is It Just Me René Descartes T Shirt Shirt but I will buy this shirt and I will love this GenPop. I’m sorry, and I know I’ll get a lot of hate for this but the safety of my students and my own personal safety takes precedence over inclusion of any kind. Kids shouldn’t have to feel like they go to class with a ticking time bomb and nor should teachers. A persons rights end right at the point where they put other people in danger, because other people have a right to safety. Honestly, I’m a sped teacher for severe students, and the number of concussions I’ve had from violent students larger than me is still not okay. I don’t get paid more than any other teacher, but my job is infinitely more dangerous.
The level of aggression we get exposed to is terrible, and the Is It Solipsistic In Here Or Is It Just Me René Descartes T Shirt Shirt but I will buy this shirt and I will love this only real way to mitigate that is for schools to provide adequate support and staff, which requires paying everyone more. So, it’ll never happen. It’s not always because people don’t understand, but because they are tired of it. Nobody’s misunderstanding. Students on IEPs aren’t the problem 99% of the time. It’s the random violent gen education student placed in your mainstream class of 35 with no IEP, no para, no behavior plan, and no admin support. And when you beg and beg for help, you’re told “just document, fill out this form, call home. Have you tried getting to know the kid? Have you tried Hot Cheetos? What was the antecedent? Remember all behavior is communication!!” It’s having to evacuate your classroom seven times in one week and then being asked why you’re behind on the pacing guide and your kids didn’t show 150% growth on iReady.
I’m sick of bleeding hearts lecturing me about trauma and inclusion and restorative justice while my colleagues are sent to the Is It Solipsistic In Here Or Is It Just Me René Descartes T Shirt Shirt but I will buy this shirt and I will love this hospital over and over again for severe physical assaults that would have anyone over the age of 14 thrown in jail. I’m tired of them refusing to do anything until a parent threatens a lawsuit because teacher safety and teacher voices don’t matter. We’re not talking about the SPED kids in alternate placements. We’re talking about the supposedly “regular” kids whose violent and inappropriate behavior is communicating that they’re spoiled, unsocialized brats who don’t like the word “no” and enjoy hurting people. Bruh. I don’t actually give a fuck about a kid’s disability if and when the manifestation of that disability is physically hurting other children. That disabled child needs to be restricted in such a way that it becomes unlikely he will hurt someone else. I didn’t sign up to do severe SPED. I didn’t sign up for a job that includes “endure physical attacks” as a requirement. The other children in that kid’s class certainly didn’t sign up for that. And everyone who says, “Well that’s just what public education is now,” can fuck right off. I used to work in recreation. People get hurt sometimes doing outdoorsy stuff, of course. However, when we had a dangerous incident, or god forbid an injury, we didn’t just shrug and say, “Well, that’s just how it is.” We dissected the whole event, figured out why it happened and made immediate changes so it didn’t happen again. 90% of what I see happening in schools is essentially the old joke about how it hurts when I hit my thumb with a hammer. We keep putting them right back in gen ed with their victims where they’re very likely to hurt someone again.
I guarantee you that everyone on here complaining about this is a gen ed teacher in a gen ed classroom. The very people you say have every right to expect better. So what’s your point? THIS. If your disability manifests in such a way that OTHER CHILDREN ARE PHYSICALLY INJURED, then I’m sorry, but you don’t belong in that class. Other children are not required to be your punching bag. It sounds like we agree then, because I too believe that a disabled child who displays aggressive behavior deserves to be in an appropriately staffed learning environment where they’re equipped to safely manage those aggressive behaviors and not just be placed in a GE class and everyone suffering. In my post I specified that the Is It Solipsistic In Here Or Is It Just Me René Descartes T Shirt Shirt but I will buy this shirt and I will love this comments I’m referring to are referencing sped programs in particular, these are GE teachers reacting to the behaviors happening in sped classrooms. Look, maybe I’m missing something (god, I hope I’m not digesting the entire contents of reddit ) but the only references I see to appropriately staffed, self contained SPED behavior programs are along the lines of, “please god, send me a miracle in the form of that.” I’ve never seen gen ed teachers bitching about the behaviors that happen inside SPED classrooms except for when those behaviors uh…get loose and trash the school or punch them in the face put everyone on lockdown on the regular or whatever. Or if we’re talking about mixing violent kids with non-violent intellectually disabled kids (which is just fucking awful.) But the world is full of wild people and the internet even moreso, so…I’m glad we’re in agreement
I 100% believe if a student is in GE class, they should be held to the Is It Solipsistic In Here Or Is It Just Me René Descartes T Shirt Shirt but I will buy this shirt and I will love this same standards as everyone else. It’s not the teacher’s or other students’ fault that admin and district place children in their room who have no business being there. It sounds like you’re referring to inclusion, in which case yes I agree. Funny enough in my experience, my students are typically more well behaved than the problem students in the GE classroom. In the times that they weren’t behaving well and disrupted class, we simply went back to our room and didn’t allow them to cause a disruption. I’m aware this is not how it’s handled at all sites though, and I think it should be handled the way we do. There are multiple kids who are in my school who are violent on a daily basis yet have not been held accountable with suspension or expulsion and the district and admin are not putting them in SPED, SCC, or behavior unit classrooms either. Their classmates just have to deal with their running, hitting, kicking, spitting, and throwing (books, shoes, computers, desks, etc) Yeah that sounds awful, admin is failing your school and letting the students suffer and probably feel fear towards the sped students.
Most schools aren’t equipped to deal with this type of student. The teachers saying a student should be removed or police called are in these schools. I do not work in a specialized school. I am in a public school that has a severe sped program, we are not a behavior program. Students who are outside of our scope can be sent to a behavior program, but having aggressive behaviors by itself is not outside of our scope and we are dealing with aggression in the Is It Solipsistic In Here Or Is It Just Me René Descartes T Shirt Shirt but I will buy this shirt and I will love this public school system as appropriately trained staff. I address the fact that many users are likely in a GE class environment and this doesn’t apply to them. I’m speaking specifically about dealing with aggression from students in a severe sped program with BIPs regarding their aggression.
Cool, i’d try a different sub then. This sub trends towards general education, so I suggest taking your strawman to r/specialed. But the Is It Solipsistic In Here Or Is It Just Me René Descartes T Shirt Shirt but I will buy this shirt and I will love this comments I’m referencing are from this sub, not special Ed. The lack of understanding isn’t coming from special Ed staff, and I’m sorry this post has seemed to upset you. People are posting about kids being in environments that leave teachers unprotected, for the most part. A human who is a danger to other humans shouldn’t be around other humans. It’s actually even more important that this notion be observed if the human literally can’t help it. Get those kids help, and once they can be around people without breaking bones, then they can get an education. So if a human (child) is a danger to other humans and shouldn’t be around them, where do they go? Where do they learn to socialize appropriately and safely? “Get those kids help, and once they can be around people without breaking bones, then they can get an education.” I assume they’d be getting help by other humans that you said they shouldn’t be around? Probably modeled good socialization from peers? I’m not sure what kind of program would be offered that isolates a student from everyone around him for long periods of time until they learn to socialize appropriately, sounds counterintuitive but if you know of a model somewhere that they do this effectively I’d love to see it! It is not the job of a bunch of little kids to be the models for peers who endanger them. That is a completely shitty perspective.
A paraprofessional in San Antonio died this past week from an altercation with a special needs student. If a student is that violent, they shouldn’t be in a school setting. I mean even settings specifically designed to work with students with aggression/behaviors are a hot mess so the Is It Solipsistic In Here Or Is It Just Me René Descartes T Shirt Shirt but I will buy this shirt and I will love this idea that they can just go somewhere suited for the needs isn’t always accurate. Think about the turnover in a place like that. The ability to keep properly educated and trained staff. The amount of intervention that’s actually proven to work??? It’s all lacking lol I’m more than aware, I work in the exact environment you’re describing lol! It is a mess of poor retention rates and lackluster programs to address the behaviors, but we’ve still got to try and give the kids the help that they deserve. Of course!! I completely agree with you. I suppose someplace where people are where WHY the behaviors are happening is better than nothing. I think a lot of people assume these locations will be able to “fix” or “deal with” the behaviors. Often times they’re just chaotic environments.
There is much less “fixing” behaviors happening around me and much more “mildly improving in spite out outside factors we can’t control in school” and yes, it’s often chaotic but the Is It Solipsistic In Here Or Is It Just Me René Descartes T Shirt Shirt but I will buy this shirt and I will love this day is rarely boring! As a self contained teacher my complaints arise from putting students with those aggressive behaviors in with other students who don’t demonstrate the same level of aggression. Evacuating classrooms and helping kids with intellectual disabilities process these behaviors is a lot. Lots of failed reading comprehension here. I agree OP, I did my early years with high needs IES kids as a para and accepted that violence was a part of the program. I was young, I could deal with it, but it was also a well funded high needs program where no one who wasn’t accepting of the “risk” (I dislike that word but can’t think of a better one) was exposed to it. LRE is a fucking disaster, and a lot of that comes down to funding. We need specific funding for that, but also we have to solve the “parental rights” issue. Right now a parent who rejects services or demands gen ed placement has more pull than a school of experts, and I’m not sure how you fix that. Paying to keep lawyers on retainer is ludicrously expensive, and the legal system takes ages.
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- Length from the highest point of the collar to the bottom hem.
- Chest straight across, armpit to armpit, with the shirt laid flat.
- Sleeve from the center back of the collar to the cuff.
| Size | Length | Chest |
|---|---|---|
| S | 2871 | 1846 |
| M | 2974 | 2051 |
| L | 3076 | 2256 |
| XL | 3179 | 2461 |
| 2XL | 3281 | 2666 |
| 3XL | 3384 | 2871 |
| 4XL | 3486 | 3076 |
| 5XL | 3589 | 3281 |
| Size | Length | Chest |
|---|---|---|
| S | 2564 | 1641 |
| M | 2666 | 1743 |
| L | 26.567 | 1846 |
| XL | 2769 | 19.750 |
| 2XL | 27.971 | 21.655 |
| 3XL | 28.572 | 22.758 |
| Size | Length | Chest |
|---|---|---|
| S | 2871 | 1846 |
| M | 2974 | 2051 |
| L | 3076 | 2256 |
| XL | 3179 | 2461 |
| 2XL | 3281 | 2666 |
| 3XL | 3384 | 2871 |
| Size | Length | Chest | Sleeve |
|---|---|---|---|
| S | 2666 | 2051 | 33.585 |
| M | 2769 | 2256 | 34.588 |
| L | 2871 | 2461 | 35.590 |
| XL | 2974 | 2666 | 36.593 |
| 2XL | 3076 | 2871 | 37.595 |
| 3XL | 3179 | 3076 | 38.598 |
| 4XL | 3281 | 3281 | 38.598 |
| 5XL | 3486 | 3384 | 38.598 |
| Size | Length | Chest | Sleeve |
|---|---|---|---|
| S | 2769 | 2051 | 34.588 |
| M | 2871 | 2256 | 35.590 |
| L | 2974 | 2461 | 36.593 |
| XL | 3076 | 2666 | 37.595 |
| 2XL | 3179 | 2871 | 38.598 |
| 3XL | 3281 | 3076 | 3999 |
| 4XL | 3384 | 3281 | 39.5100 |
| 5XL | 3486 | 3486 | 40102 |
| Size | Length | Chest | Sleeve |
|---|---|---|---|
| S | 2871 | 1846 | 33.585 |
| M | 2974 | 2051 | 3589 |
| L | 3076 | 2358 | 36.593 |
| XL | 3179 | 2461 | 3897 |
| 2XL | 3281 | 2666 | 39.5100 |
| 3XL | 3384 | 2871 | 39.5100 |
| Size | Length | Chest |
|---|---|---|
| S | 2769 | 1846 |
| M | 2871 | 2051 |
| L | 2974 | 2256 |
| XL | 3076 | 2461 |
| 2XL | 3179 | 2666 |
| Size | Youth size | Length | Chest |
|---|---|---|---|
| S | 6-8 | 20.552 | 1641 |
| M | 10-12 | 2256 | 1743 |
| L | 14-16 | 23.560 | 1846 |
| XL | 18-20 | 2564 | 1948 |
| Size | Youth size | Length | Chest |
|---|---|---|---|
| S | 6-8 | 2153 | 1743 |
| M | 10-12 | 22.557 | 1846 |
| L | 14-16 | 2461 | 1948 |
| XL | 18-20 | 25.565 | 2051 |
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